In response to the Christian version of Easter

This is my response to the following blog posting that insinuates that the story of Jesus’ resurrection is true:

I agree that there is value in what Jesus taught, and that his teachings were able to be driven home by the resurrection. The fact that Christianity is still going strong demonstrates that there is much truth contained in the story of Jesus. It makes sense that the teachings would lead people to believe in the supernatural elements of the story. I have had an interest in magic from a very young age. I wanted to be a magician, until I came to learn that magic was actually illusion. There does seem to be a possibility that Jesus could have been a daredevil magician with a heart for humanity.

There also seems to be laws of nature operating in the universe. They also seem to be rather consistent to the point where we can study them and learn a mind-blowing amount of things from studying them. Does understanding this remove any Godly belief? It doesn’t have to. We have no idea why or how the Big Bang occurred. Was it random? Was it created? At this point it’s anyone’s guess. Maybe it was some sort of entity beyond our comprehension throwing a handful of seeds into the garden we know as the universe. The good news is we are seeking understanding of it. We are seeking understanding of our creator.

And Jesus is right on the money with his main points – we should love God (our creator) above all, love your neighbour as yourself, and that despite our selfish tendencies, we are all forgiven.

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87 Responses to In response to the Christian version of Easter

  1. Arkenaten says:

    This is a joke right? You have stated you are most definitely NOT Christian yet here you are, openly expressing Christian sentiments, even to the point of alluding to ”god”.

    And Jesus is right on the money with his main points – we should love God (our creator) above all, love your neighbour as yourself, and that despite our selfish tendencies, we are all forgiven.

    If this isn’t the height of hypocrisy, then I don’t know what is.

    Truly, you are most odd.

    • jasonjshaw says:

      The Big Bang led to our existence, in Christianity our creator is God. Therefore, using Christian terminology, the Big Bang = God.

      As Nelson Mandela demonstrated, in order to connect with those who are against you, speaking their language can go a long way in turning the tables.

      • Arkenaten says:

        Mandela was an insightful man and a politician. He wasn’t a hypocrite.
        For you to cheer the man god whom you not believe in is disingenuous and deceitful.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        He wasn’t God but he made some good points. What’s the problem with that?

      • Arkenaten says:

        Ah….well, now if you first strip away all that is supernatural from what the character was and wrote out all the non-supernatural things he is credited with saying and doing you are left with er.. what, Jason…..?

        Perhaps you ought to find out. ? As you aren’t Christian an’ all, right?

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Jesus’ key points – Love God (our creator, which as far as we know is the Big Bang and the results of it), love your neighbour as yourself, and forgiveness is available without the need to sacrifice animals.

        Seems pretty solid to me.

      • Arkenaten says:

        Your first premise is wrong for a kick off. The big bang is not god as Christians believe god preceded it.
        The golden rule was around a long tome before the man god…as well you should know.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Well then whatever caused the Big Bang can be considered as God. Minor detail.

        Does it matter that the golden rule was around before? The fact that it is emphasized is the important thing. Or are you saying that it’s a bad thing? Are you saying that fried chicken is no good unless you use the original recipe?

      • Arkenaten says:

        No, of course I am not saying it is a bad thing, I am challenging the impression that you may be tacitly conveying that ”Jesus” even said it..and this is in doubt, according to the experts ( if you put much stock in that sort of thing)

        The Big Bang: It may be a minor detail to you but it sure as hell is not to Christians, and I have pointed out how you are already getting mown down by both lanes of traffic.

        Christian faith hinges on the belief that ”he” is god – you have refuted this.
        So what on earth are you trying to punt? Christians consider your arguments dense and meaningless because you are stating that JC was merely a man, and this is NOT Christianity.

        Non-believers like me are merely baffled ( still) as to that on earth you are still mumbling on about?

        At least come out and state what you mean once and for all.
        Why not punt Islam or Buddhism?

        Please excuse any meandering…I am busy watching Everton beat Manchester united and although it doesn’t take many brain cells to discuss religion my attention is divided. It’s Soccer, so nothing personal.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Christians believe Jesus said it, that is what I am working with. I’d love to work on connecting Islam and Buddhism as well, but necessary time and appropriate opportunity hasn’t presented itself to allow me to properly connect to those other faiths.

        What I mean is that observable science calls into question the supernatural elements of the story of Jesus. On the other hand, people are able to connect with the teachings presented through the telling of the story of Jesus. I am seeking to de-hinge Christian belief on the supernaturality of Jesus as such belief stands in the way of the connection throughout humanity that Jesus sought in the story.

        And if I was only being mown down, I would have no reason to continue this blog.

        Enjoy the game Ark, I’ve got some yard work to attend to.

      • Arkenaten says:

        To try and demonstrate JC’s supposed humanity without considering him as the god-man is a futile argument to present to Christians.
        Your argument is no different than many atheists and all Muslims. And not a single one of them has ever made noticeable ground on the Jesus question in respect of causing Christians to suddenly up sticks and deconvert. ( as far as I am aware, and not according to the many deconvertees here in Blogsville))

        To suggest you are trying to unhinge Christian belief is nuts – no offence – as they are not going to suddenly give up belief in JC’s divinity on the say so of such an argument…which you have still not even identified with any serious clarification.

        Everton beat United 2-0 and it was a good game.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        The deconvertees here in Blogsville, from what I’ve read, tend to have deconverted from more extreme versions of Christianity. I agree that those who are into those variations will tend to need to get out completely and I think I can see better where you’re coming from in your all or nothing approach to it.

        My approach is about suggesting the alternative possibility that Jesus could have been a daredevil magician with a heart for humanity. Not divine, but well-studied. It’s a possibility most Christians seem to be completely unaware of, as there seems to be mass subscription to the flawed C.S. Lewis approach. I guess you could say that is where my approach comes in.

      • Arkenaten says:

        It’s a possibility most Christians seem to be completely unaware of,

        Er…surely you jest, Jason? What on Earth do you think much of the early internecine fights were all about before the likes of Theodosius was let loose on the world?

        The alternative is what was forcibly eradicated.

        Christianity stands or falls on the Resurrection and numerous discussions with Christians such as Unklee ( you may have met him over on Nate’s blog) and listening to dicks like WLC reveal that even doing away with the bible ( which many believe is NOT the original text) will have little or no effect on their belief/faith.

        This is why I state, such change/conversion always seems to come from with in. Introspection.

        Meantime, people can believe what they want ,it is their right and as adults I support this, just keep it away from kids and ensure it does not impact on secular society.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Shall I rephrase? It’s a possibility most current Christians seem to be completely unaware of. They write it off as insanity.

        Obviously the vocal ones who are absolutely convinced in their own minds that they’re right aren’t about to change directions. They’ve already put so many words out there in support of their view that they would have some serious explaining to do if they were to change directions. It’s the ones who aren’t completely convinced that can benefit from some nudging in a more realistic direction. The more people who have an awareness that the Bible is not telling the story the church says it is, the less kids that will be force fed this stuff as fact.

        Not all Christians are hardened to their beliefs like the ones that tend to stand out the most.

      • Arkenaten says:

        True, but all ordinary Christians consider Jesus is divine as I have mentioned before.

        Read back over your dialogues with believers and see their responses.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        They do, but they’re tangled up in the web of scripture to varying degrees. I can’t imagine that they’re all to the point of being hardened from alternative thought.

      • Getting in touch with magic or magician is like being connected with the ocult and satanic darkness. Without GOD’s power, the devils would have absolutely NO power to operate their evil plans. GOD; YAHWAH – reigns forever!

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Magic is illusion. Elijah even used it in starting a fire with water. Illusion is a powerful tool for convincing people that something is truth, even if it isn’t the full truth.

      • Based on what context you are referring. Although, magic as in playing tricks is to be prevented. It is Satanic and of the darkness. People can be harmed because magic can be related to the occult.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Here is a demonstration of how Elijah may have started a fire with water:

        Magic can also be used for good, as many magicians (like Harry Houdini) spent time proving psychics to be untrue. It is when magic is used for selfish reasons that it becomes troublesome.

      • There is no such thing as Big Bang. It is a deception of Satan. Believing his lies leads you to hell without realising that JESUS CHRIST is our one and only true LORD and SAVIOUR. Don’t be so confident for the next breathe for GOD is in complete control. Have your fear and trembling of your salvation by having a right standing with GOD, JESUS CHRIST before it is too late. HE welcomes you with open arms and love like you never know for HE is love. Which place will you spend for eternity in the next life? Heaven or hell? It is strictly your choice. JESUS wants you to choose HIM. Accept HIS gift of salvation, repent all your sins, surrender all your will and life to JESUS CHRIST, have a relationship with HIM daily and watch for HIS soon coming return. HE is coming soon to rapture HIS BRIDE to heaven. The biblical prophecies is coming to pass in fulfilment one by one.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        If there actually is an afterlife, I will consider it a bonus. The Big Bang is not a deception, it is the conclusion of evidence that has been observed about the universe.

        Prophesy of the Messiah haven’t even come to be. Jews still don’t accept Jesus as Messiah after 2000 years.

        If God loves us so much, why would He send us to Hell if we don’t believe in Him? That’s a very conditional love.

      • The bible did not say Big Bang that created the world. It is GOD, the GOD of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac who created ALL things. The bible is a proved bible and its biblical prophecies are coming to pass one by one. This proved that the biblical GOD is true.

        Jews don’t accept HIM yet – well, there always comes a process before coming to GOD.

        GOD is love, yet HE is perfectly righteous. People go to hell is by their own choosing. They sin and the price of sin is death. GOD YAHUSHUA HA MASHIACH died on the cross for all our sins on the cross and rise again after 3 days is completely out of love. HE wants us to choose eternal life, that is to choose HIM. Only righteousness and love can enter heaven. No sin can enter this holy eternal place.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Actually, from what I’ve read, Jesus hasn’t fulfilled the necessary prophesies to be considered the Messiah.

        The Bible doesn’t mention the Big Bang because people over 2000 years ago did not have enough information about the universe to understand it. It is something we are only discovering now. It is the evidence God left us to learn about His Creation.

        Isn’t Hell also eternal?

        I find it difficult that a loving, all-powerful God would let people go to Hell. If someone intentionally pushed me, not caring or apologizing, but then tripped and hurt themselves seriously when they fell, the way you describe God, that person would be left to suffer, and that would be loving. I don’t find that to be loving at all. A person who has stumbled in their ways deserves a helping hand to be picked back up, healed, and taught of their mistakes. I would expect a loving God to do that, not to let people go to Hell.

      • 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Genesis 1:3

        God spoke things into existence. When He spoke to create things, and it happens according to what He said.

        “For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.” Exodus 20:11

        God created the heavens and earth for 6 days.

        26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. Matthew 19:26

        Things that God do is beyond human’s understanding. It doesn’t have to make sense to us in what God does. All things are possible for Him!

        Heaven and hell are eternal places. His destiny cannot be reversed once judgment is set for that person.

        God have showed His intense love to humility by lowering Himself on the cross to die for our sins so we can be forgiven of all sins and covered in the robe of righteousness by faith in Christ died for our sins who knew no sin, who has risen, so that we can be reconciled back to Him and not be judged for our sins.

        But faith without works is dead, thus complete repentance, surrender, have a relationship with Him and watch for His return is to be done daily.

        God is love, and He is eternal. Thus sinning against an eternal God result in eternal damnation for our spirits are made in the image of God and so our spirits are eternal.

        God delights in righteousness. He hates sin. When we stumble, God is faithful for He sends the Holy Spirit to those born again children to help them overcome sins continuously.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        That is one occurrence where the Bible contradicts itself. Faith is all that is needed is said in one instance, while faith without works is dead is said in another.

        Also, the Bible was written by man. Man wasn’t around to be able to blindly describe how the world came to be, so how can it be believed more than what we can now see using evidence?

        If God is love, why does He feel the need to hide away and make us decide what we want to believe? Again, not a very loving God playing games like that.

      • The bible never contradicts itself. It is like putting pieces into a puzzle, here a little, there a little to understand the whole picture.

        2 Timothy 3:16-17
        16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

        17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

        Sin separated us from God. God died for our sins so we can be forgiven of our sins through His shed blood and have the chance to spend eternity with Him in eternal love and peace. By then we will never be separated with Him again.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Have you studied the Bible in-depth? There is a graphic that shows all of the inconsistencies in the Bible. I am sure some can be fit in a way to make sense, but from looking at it, there are some bigger issues in the scripture that aren’t so easily solved.

        Here is the graphic:

        Not to mention the number of different versions of Christianity with different beliefs. If the Bible is the Word of God, God made it very difficult to truly understand his Word.

        Also, why would God need to sacrifice Himself to Himself? Isn’t God supposed to be all-powerful? If God did all that the Book of Genesis says he did in a few days, why was God so inefficient in atoning for sin? I’d like to think God would treat us better than bringing us all that confusion.

      • I read my bible everyday these days. There are no conflicts in the bible. Inspiration comes from God; and when He inspired the Bible, it was perfect.

        Different versions of bible do you mean? Well, they are translations from the Greek and Hebrews. It is better to read an interlinear bible, referring back to the original Greek and Hebrews roots of meaning.

        God sacrificed Himself to humanity. To us, so that His shed blood be cleansing all our sins and forgive all our sins would be possible. Thus, we can go to heaven for eternal life with Him just as it meant to be.

        God is all powerful. His shed blood is all powerful to cleanse ALL sins. For He is without sin. He has risen. He is all powerful at all times.

        God loves us intensely. He sent His only begotten Son JESUS CHRIST to die for our sins therefore our sins can be ALL forgiven. Through faith in Him and our actions – full repentance, full surrender, work a relationship with Him, watch for His soon return. All these are to be done daily.

        God is NOT a God of confusion. (1 cor. 14:33) it is the devil that confuses and make lies, for Satan is a liar.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        I still don’t understand how God could create everything in 6 days but to atone for sin He had to send himself in human form to live for 30 years. Couldn’t He have done it much more simply in a coupe of minutes?

        Considering that less than 1/2 of the world’s population is Christian, does that mean Satan is more powerful than God?

        Also, to be the Messiah, doesn’t Jesus need to be in King David’s bloodline? Doesn’t all the world have to believe in him?

        Here is a good link describing why Jesus doesn’t qualify to be the Messiah:

      • You don’t need to understand how God did it in 6 days for it is beyond hunan’s understanding.

        We should not question God. What He did is perfect.

        God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the God of gods. Even that Satan is the god of this world, all his power are given by God; Jesus Christ. Jesus is highest above all and His name is above all names.

        Jesus Christ is the one and only true messiah in this world. He is the saviour of mankind, to save them from damnation through forgiveness of sins of man by the blood of Jesus alone.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Jesus isn’t even clearly the Messiah according to the Old Testament. It doesn’t matter how God did it in 6 days, but He did do it in 6 days on the Bible. It took Him 30 years to atone for sin through Jesus. Did God lose a lot of His power?

        If Satan is powered by God, how is what God did perfect if Satan needs to be avoided?

      • Jesus is the one and only true Messiah if you read the bible clearly.

        God comes not only in the form of Jesus. The father; YAHWAH. The Holy Spirit … Are the same God.

        I don’t understand your last question.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        How am I not reading the Bible clearly? How are the Jews not reading it clearly? They make very clear points.

        You suggest that God is perfect, but Satan came from God. How is God perfect if Satan came from God?

      • Jesus Christ is the one and only saviour who can redeem us and save us from hell. His blood can cleanse all sins, as I have mentioned many times.

        God is still perfect. Satan was created by God. Satan was perfect in his ways before the fall. He rebelled against God. His pride of wanting to be god made him fall to hell. He sin because of himself, not God for the bible said God cannot be tempted and God would NOT tempt us to sin. Satan sinned because of the lust he have within him and he is a liar himself.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        If God is perfect, why did He allow the fall to happen? Why did He create sin? Why did he allow His Creation to become imperfect?

        And sins can actually be forgiven without belief in Jesus, at least to the same extent that is experienced by Christians on Earth.

      • He allows the fall because He gave us free will. God do NOT make us to sin. It is the person who chooses to sin.

        We must believe in Jesus is the son of God. His sacrifice on the cross for our sins to be forgiven. Those is called Christians you say aren’t Christians.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        So in Heaven we no longer have free will? Why did He give us free will when He could have just put us in Heaven to begin with? Are we like a game to Him?

      • No sin can enter heaven. God give us free will to choose sin or not. He loves and therefore we are given free will to choose Him or not.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        So if Heaven is the place we want to be, why did God give us free will? He thought we deserved a chance to be tortured eternally?

      • He loves us therefore gave us free will to choose. Those who sin and do not repent goes to hell. Those who believe in Jesus Christ’s gospel and repent all, surrender all to God, have a relationship with Him and watch for His return daily go to heaven.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        If He really loves us and Heaven is the perfect place, He wouldn’t have allowed us the risk of going to Hell in the first place. If free will is love, and sin exists because of free will, if there is no sin in Heaven, there must not be free will either. If we believe, then we are giving up our free will. Why would God want us to reject His loving notion of giving us free will?

      • I believe it is for the glory of God that we are a chosen generation. By His love shown on the cross. God humbled Himself and died for our ugly sins. After this earth and heaven pass away. God will make all things new. Sin will not be a problem anymore. People with their sinless body in heaven…the truth sets us free.

        You either serve God or Satan. There is no in between. So would I say now that you have no free will because you serve Satan?

      • jasonjshaw says:

        If there is no sin, there is no free will. How is free will from God’s love and then no free will is Heavenly? And no free will is from Satan too? I’m confused.

        God sure made things complicated. I just did some searching about this, and there is much confusion about the issue of free will between different Christians. From what you describe, Heaven and Hell sound like the same place of no free will.

      • We are not created by God to do our own selfish will. God makes us to worship Him, exalt Him and glorify Him. God created us to do according to His will for He made us and have the right to order us to do things to please Him. It is all about Him. True followers of Christ surrender all their life to His will.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        So giving us free will is a cruel trick God has played on us as we are not supposed to use it.

      • God is NOT cruel. HE IS LOVE as said in the bible. There is a free will to choose Him or Satan. Being sinless, we still can have our thoughts and behaviour just that it would be things that do NOT sin against God.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Actions speak louder than words.

        Why didn’t God give us free will without sin then?

      • I believe after this earth and heaven pass away, all things will be made new. By then those righteous in Christ would have their glorified sinless body. They will not sin anymore and can have their own thoughts and actions, just that it must be under the will of God.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        It seems strange that God didn’t just make it that way in the first place.

      • I believe it is for the glory of God and because of His love for us to have a choice to choose Him or satan.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        So it’s for God’s ego?

      • God do NOT sin. He does NOT have false ego like man. The God I serve is a humble God. There is no pride on love. God is love. Glorying God for He deserves all glory and praise. He wants us to love Him back.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        So He gives us the choice, but makes threats to us to love Him or we will go to Hell. That sounds more manipulative than loving.

      • He deserves our love. He is our first love as said in the bible. It is not manipulative, it is about righteousness.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        If He deserves our love and is our first love, why does He need to threaten us with Hell?

      • Hell because of sin.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Why would we sin if He deserves our love and is our first love?

      • We sin because we choose to do so. He deserves our love and it is a choice to love Him or not. God won’t force people.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Why would we choose to sin against Him if He is our first love and deserves our love?

      • We are in the flesh and have a sinful nature passed from Adam and Eve. If we love God, we would obey Him.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        If God made His orders clear, that might be a bit easier to do. It’s one thing for God to let us have free will, but why did he let us have a sinful nature? Why would He make it so difficult to not go to Hell?

      • He made a way out for us on the cross. When we repent all, surrender all, have relationship with Him and watch for His return daily. Trusting in Jesus gospel. Accepting complete biblical truths we can prevent hell.

        “For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:30

        With the help of the Holy Spirit, we can overcome all evils and sins.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        So God initially made things too difficult and had to make some changes? That seems less than perfect.

      • It is not difficult when we rely on the Holy Spirit. It is a delight to follow His laws that are just and peaceful. God is perfect. He have no mistakes.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Why did He have to come in the form of Jesus when He could have made sins atoned for already in the first place? That seems like the correction of a mistake.

      • The son of God came to set us free from hell, dying on the cross for our sins so we can be forgiven. God is perfect, when He chooses to come was a perfect timing.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Would have been better if He just made it right to begin with.

      • We humans cannot go back to the past now to change all that. All we can do to prevent hell is to do what I mentioned before. Repent…etc.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        But we can be aware of that past and realize that the Christian version of God’s perfection is questionable.

      • God is perfect. Do not limit God because of your own shortcomings.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        I’m not saying that God isn’t perfect, I’m saying that the Christian version of God is not perfect.

        You said “We humans cannot go back to the past now to change all that.” In that statement you seemed to accept that there could be issues with the past as you acknowledged that it might need changing. Please don’t turn your realization around on me in attempt to backtrack. It’s okay to realize troubles, it can only lead you closer to what really is the truth.

      • The only one true God, the God of Israel is perfect. There is only one God. I was replying to your view of putting such issue to an initial stage, does not mean that I say God is not, He is perfect. Blasphemers will go to hell. Sinners too.

        Philippians 2:9-11
        King James Version (KJV)
        9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

        10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

        11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Have you researched and debated those of other beliefs to be sure? Chances are those who believe through their Holy literature will be just as convinced their belief and God are the one true belief just as much as you are convinced of your version.

      • I am very sure. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob lives and reign forever.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        Not to mention, as I mentioned before, it would have been better if God had clarified things much sooner.

      • He is coming sooner than you think.

      • jasonjshaw says:

        I believe the second coming is more likely to be a second understanding of who Jesus really was. And I agree, that understanding is coming soon.

  2. Strewth says:

    jasonjshaw says:
    April 20, 2014 at 3:30 pm
    “My approach is about suggesting the alternative possibility that Jesus could have been a daredevil magician with a heart for humanity. Not divine, but well-studied. It’s a possibility most Christians seem to be completely unaware of, as there seems to be mass subscription to the flawed C.S. Lewis approach. I guess you could say that is where my approach comes in.”

    I have a problem. I am not Christian in the eyes of many, but for others I pass muster. That is, as a Universalist who acknowledges the validity of other faiths. They all started off with wonderful sentiments, but it didn’t take long for corruption to set in them all.

    I do not believe in proselytising for my beliefs, but believe everyone has access to spiritual knowledge that is suitable for them. As though this Earthly life is a school where we may be each at not only a different level, but studying different ‘subjects’. If I were studying to be a horticulturist, I would have no right to tell someone they were mistaken if they are studying to be a dentist.

    So my problem is, I feel a need to alert people to other possibilities than the traditionally accepted ones, without destroying the simple faith of simple people. Whoever or whatever God is most likely loves them dearly, and they are doing ok by that standard.

    I am convinced of an after-life through an amazing experience – only one, I’m not prone to them! But I’m led to believe re-incarnation COULD be factual. in any case, there is someone out there who cares, maybe not God, but doing the work of God, a God who may be better described as a Force, as in Star Wars!

    May the Force be with you!

    • jasonjshaw says:

      Nice perspective there Strewth! I have to admit, I have been a bit curious as to where you were coming from as we seem to be in a somewhat similar ballpark in how we see things.

      What is it that leads you to believe in an afterlife?

      • Strewth says:

        Three of my children were born in city hospitals. The fourth was born in a small rural hospital, much less organised. The young nurses were run off their feet. Expectant mothers from remote areas came in early, and mixed with others who had given birth. Because of a misunderstanding I was thought to be one of the former, and didn’t see my child for some hours, long enough to be not suffering any post natal psychological effects from what was an easy drug-free birth.

        I was dumbstruck when she appeared in the nurses arms in the doorway. Of course a new-born baby’s eyes don’t focus or see much at all, but that baby’s eyes connected straight with mine across the room. I was dumbstruck to recognise my mother’s presence in those eyes – she had died a few years previously.

        At first I held her in a daze, feeling embarrassed at the thought of breast-feeding my own mother, but I told myself “I don’t know whatever is going on here, but this is a little baby who needs to be fed.” Immediately after feeding the impression was gone.

        Maybe this was reincarnation, or maybe my mother was able to make use of the child to let me know she was still around. I don’t know, but whatever, it still mrans survival after death.

        Another factor was that this baby was soon the cause, because of a drubken accident injuring her, of my husband stopping drinking. Perhaps she came back for this purpose – she would have done anything to help me.

        I watched for signs that she might have some knowledge of a prior life, but only ever saw two. When about 5 yrs old she saw for the first time a picture of my father, and grabbed it. “Who IS this?” She demanded. I asked could she guess, and she said emphatically “I don’t know who it is, but I know that I know him!”

        The only other time was at about 7 yrs old she went with her father to the old family home. After a long and wearying car trip they arrived at night. She was tired and in tears, and after the damp and dismal night driving my husband tried to brighten her by driving around the city lights. He was afraid that the family home might upset her more, being tall and austere looking. When she got there she recovered instantly.

        Afterwards I said to her “So the house didn’t frighten you at all?” She answered “Oh no! I felt more at home there than in our own home!”

        That’s all I can tell you!

      • jasonjshaw says:

        That is a very interesting story! There very well could be some deeper connections between us all that are currently beyond our understanding. A friend from when I was exploring church told me that he had experiences at at least one Christian event. I can’t recall exactly what it was, something along the lines of collapsing to the floor when touched by someone. Something like that.

        It’s like there may be a transmission of information that goes on behind the scenes, below consciousness, and even below subconsciousness. Maybe like a collective subconscious even?

        There are some wild things we are yet to discover about us. I actually just saw a show this past weekend about people who can remember things that happened, that they experienced in the past on any particular day you ask them.

  3. john zande says:

    “The fact that Christianity is still going strong”

    But it’s not “going strong.” It’s collapsing, has been for the last 100, and that decline is accelerating. Sure, in the deeply superstitious pockets of the US Christianity is still prevalent, albeit diluting into ever smaller, evermore reactionary sects, but elsewhere in the advanced world its a non-starter.

  4. Mark 3:13-29

    13 And he goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto him whom he would: and they came unto him.

    14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

    15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:

    16 And Simon he surnamed Peter;

    17 And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder:

    18 And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Canaanite,

    19 And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into an house.

    20 And the multitude cometh together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread.

    21 And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.

    22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

    23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

    24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

    25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

    26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

    27 No man can enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

    28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

    29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

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